8Cr13MoV vs D2 Steel what's the difference? - Honey Badger Knives Generally this is code for difficulty in abrading away steel. The steel loses some of the chromium in solution for corrosion resistance to form these fine carbides for hardness. This is a very important factor when selecting a steel for your knife blade, especially if you plan on spending a lot of time outdoors in an area with high humidity.. S30v is a higher ranked steel and considered a true Stainless Steel, with a 14% . then you have zirconia and diamond coated blades. 14C28N is the highest-selling steel of Sandvik, a Swedish steel company. It is among the best steel that will offer exceptional toughness while still maintaining excellent corrosion resistance. More expensive powder metallurgy steels in this category include M390, CPM-S35VN, Elmax, CTS-XHP, CPM-S30V, and CPM-154. Hit like and all t. In particular, I really care about the toughness / hardness part. Steels high in toughness are excellent for knives likely to see hard impacts, like large chopping knives. Thats a pretty large difference in two budget steels that are often compared to each other. You will get an ultra-sharp edge with 14C28N knives. Developed by New Jersey Steel Baron, Nitro V is a non-powder steel marketed as an enhanced version of AEB-L. Nitro V, as its name indicates, adds nitrogen to AEB-Ls formula to make the steel even more corrosion-resistant. Any idea where it would be on the hardness and toughness scales? Note:Dont bother with anything less than 8Cr in this series. And Ive done a lot of experimental work on knife steels where I feel more confident in my own ratings. On the other hand, 9cr18mov has a slightly higher molybdenum content which gives it higher hardness from quenching and helps drive carbide formation. In general, higher carbon and higher vanadium steels have higher wear resistance and edge retention but lower toughness. Other factors include how thick your edge is, how dull your knife was at the start, the nature of the heat treatment, and what youre using to sharpen your knife. Its not a regression line, it is just a line through the best steels. Combination of knife steel properties. If the steel is overheated in austenitizing, very large reductions in toughness are possible. 1) the cvn number is just that, a number. Vanadium carbides are among the hardest that form in steel, and chromium carbides are in between iron carbide and vanadium carbide. LC200N has similar properties to those two but with saltwater levels of corrosion resistance. It would be interesting to try to develop a conversation between /geometry/edge retention/toughness, so we could say e.g. The solid lockup and decent blade design make these two knives well suited for camping. And given the recipe, it has a low number of carbides, the extra-hard microcrystals in steel that provide the hardness necessary for a stable and sharp edge. For more information, please see our If you need something that soaks up abuse, try 3V. Anyway, buff up the O1v and it cuts leather easily. Here, youll learn the different factors that go into each steel, ratings for a wide variety of steel alloys, and youll get some recommendations for types of knives different types of steel work well for. Ruike Sandvik 14c28n vs D2 : r/knives - reddit 7:00am-5:00pm, 10am-7pm Tuesday - Friday Its not bad, but you can find better in the market at the same price. And we list budget-friendly knives that have a professional style and grace to them. Different companies can vary some between each other making the same product, while a single company is going to be more consistent. Powder metallurgy is a technology designed to maintain a small carbide size. [Steel Knife Review], Best survival knife sword: 5160 steel Review, What is VG 10 pocket knife? 2) you do not go into the sharpening in much detail. But as the market has grown and newer steels have come out, it has fallen in price and prestige. Now that is power planer blades, but the principle stands, less carbon and alloy isnt the best for wood working and Id use a steel like 26C3 (1.25% C .30%Cr) for my hand tools and temper them to around 62 hard and use the best angle for wood shaving, not the best angle for cutting rope. what does a cvn of 40 v.s 20 mean? 440A Corrosion is not only cosmetic. most knives are being made out of these and other mediocre steels like 14c28n, 420j2, 425m. 14c28n steel has a high Chromium and Carbon percentage. Most steels use carbon to increase hardness, but 14C28N uses nitrogen, boosting hardness without the normal penalty of increased corrosion. Damascus or pattern welded steel is a result of combining two steels together. We can predict edge retention of a steel within a relatively narrow band based on hardness and carbide volume. And a label: AEB-L. AEB-L and 14C28N are the best in the high toughness group. 440B Custom maker Brian Trudeau uses Nitro V, and Massdrops Perpetua design is the first production knife to sport it. Low Alloy tool steels have small alloy additions to increase hardenability so they harden more easily in oil rather than water. Are you looking for 14c28n steel with other steel? Ive not seen these used on non-kitchen knives, though, and it seems that if they had real utility they would be used in other knives as well although perhaps on the thinner edges of kitchen knives they are more effective than they would be elsewhere? You cant look at only the chromium content of the steel to know the level of corrosion resistance. In reality hardly difference. Dr. Thomas you spoke of using a different media for cutting test and I have some extra veg tan leather and was wondering what are the parameters of the leather you need? 9cr18mov vs 14c28n. 1095 stains easily and thus is often coated, especially in fixed blades. 14c28n steel would be a great pick thanks to its high retention and corrosion, it would be great for a normal EDC knife. Poor availability may effectively increase cost of steel. Cookie Notice On the other hand small but mighty, the pocket knife provides both in professional performance and in arresting good looks. Sandvik 14c28n Steel Review - KnifeUp 1095 Interesting. Does that mean that companies like Tops, Kabar and ESEE would be better off using 420HC instead of 1095 on their fixed blades? The reason is because sharpening and edge geometry will also greatly control properties. This isnt exactly how steel works; different properties are difficult to increase without affecting something else. Its probably in between Vanadis 8 and 10V. CROMOVA These steels favor edge retention over all else. For example, see the chart below for how much edge retention can change with edge geometry for a single steel (in this case 154CM and CPM-154). That is an air-hardening- high carbon, high chromium tool steel. Properties: 14C28N: D2: Edge retention: 4/10: 7/10: Ease of sharpening: 6/10: 3/10: Corrosion resistance: 4/10: 4/10: Toughness: 6/10: 6/10: CIVIVI Knives Elementum Folding Pocket Knife 2.96" D2 Satin Blade . 14C28N and D2 steel are not the same. in relation to hardness). The very good toughness of MagnaCut meant that it didnt chip despite this relatively high hardness and the difficulty of the test. 14C28N vs. D2. W-2 Knife Steel Benefiting from 0.2 percent vanadium content, W-2 holds an edge well and is reasonably tough. Despite its age, its a truly superior steel. This is an American-made powder steel. Any thoughts how Sleipner might fare in the ratings? 14c28n steel and D2 steel are both high-quality knife steels. Spyderco is the only production company using this steel, though Michael Gavik of Gavko knives produced a number of customs in LC 200N. 14c28n is the most popular material for the knife: stainless steel and made by the Swedish company. That is professionaly popular such as the Japanese designation SKD11, Uddeholm Sverker 21, German designation 1.2379, Hitachi SLD and others. Is 14c28n A Good Knife Steel? [Complete Steel Guide] https://cedric-ada-store.creator-spring.com/listing/brickard-heritage-collectionGood gravy its bricky on thingsSubscribe and hit the bell! While some are into that type of thing, if youre familiar with a specific steel and want to compare it with another, you should definitely click on that button below. Why do you give a coin with a knife as a gift? A proprietary steel and heat treat developed by Busse Knives, INFI is an excellent performer and one of the best steels for big choppers on the market. 8Cr13MoV is comparable to the Japanese AUS-8 but containing slightly higher carbon content. . If youre having trouble finding the steel you want, see if another manufacturer makes something much like it. 14C28N, designed by Sandvik at Kershaw's behest to have the edge properties of 13C26 but with increased corrosion resistance by adding nitrogen and chromium. Im a layman trying to understand what makes the best steel for my use. The D2 steel compares nicely with 14c28n steel in terms of edge retention, as it's quite hard as well. The hardness of the carbides does not matter much unlike with edge retention. Even though it has very high hardness, its also still decently resistant to corrosion and quite tough. 14C28N knife will dull faster, but it is easy to sharpen. The 14C28N stainless steel from Swedish manufacturer Sandvik is considered an upgrade to their 13C26 steel (described below). When we plot toughness vs edge retention on a log scale instead we get a straight line that is a better visualization of toughness differences. Corrosion Resistance: D2 steel has a higher chromium content than 8Cr13MoV, which makes it better at resisting corrosion and wear. 14c28n Steel Is Good for Knife? Here's The Best Review For - Milkwood For these reasons D2 steel is a good for smaller folding knives, but is not ideal for large fixed blades such as dedicated choppers and large survival knives. Approximately the same hardness, yes. The main downside is the steel is more difficult to heat treat and cant go harder than about 60 or perhaps 61 Rc. and yet millons of knives are being made out of 1.4116 (aisi 420mov?) Or is this an argument that tends to be rooted more in the presumption that Japanese steel > Chinese steel than any practical difference in reality? most knives are being made out of these and other mediocre steels like 14c28n, 420j2, 425m. Now 14c28n is IMO the best budget steel out there. If you want to learn more than keep reading past the ratings. So presumably, wear resistance would be in the 3.5-4 range and toughness in the 5.5-6 range. Knives are one of our oldest tools, so it makes sense that they have evolved into thousands of styles since the first person chipped one out of stone. It mainly made for knife and it high in Chromium for excellent corrosion resistance. AEB-L is rarely found on production knives but can be found on custom knives easily. 9Cr is the top end of the series and is quite good as good or better than AUS-8. What is AUS10A Steel? - knife Insight See the chart below showing 52100 steel that was overaustenitized (unintentionally) by a knifemaker that sent me specimens for toughness testing. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. The 1.4116 I tested has large carbides in it which is presumably the reason for low measured toughness: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/05/26/new-micrographs-of-42-knife-steels/. 1% saltwater will separate between other stainless steels. Therefore, ensure to wash and dry your knives after use to keep the rust away. By signing up for email newsletters, you agree to GearJunkie's, Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to email a link to a friend (Opens in new window). ApexUltra is a steel that we are working on that had excellent properties in small batch production (50 lbs). 14C28N steel is the improved version of 13C26 with better rust resistance. But in use, Ive found nothing that withstands the abuse that 3V can take. This is to keep the focus on the elements that are making the biggest difference. 14C28N knives are better than D2 knives in corrosion resistance. Carpenter produces this powder steel. As with high alloy tool steels, the amount of vanadium can be a shortcut to predicting the general level of wear resistance and edge retention. What is the Best Budget Knife Steel? - Knife Steel Nerds Each test is done with 3 or more specimens to get a good average. This means consumers should be able to maintain these quality knives at home. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/05/01/testing-the-edge-retention-of-48-knife-steels/, Unfortunately it all comes down to marketing on everybody involved: Industry, knifemakers, users. On the other hand, in d2 air-hardness steel, you cant differentially temper the blade-like other high carbon steel because the steel can also be challenging to sharpen. The ultra high corrosion resistance steels Vanax or LC200N max out around 60-61 Rc instead. Also Mo additions improve corrosion resistance for a given amount of chromium. 14C28N is stainless steel, and its knives offer excellent rust resistance and toughness than D2 steel. 2. But its lightyears ahead of the alternatives, specifically titanium-bladed knives. Monday-Friday I measured corrosion resistance of a slightly lower carbon 420 here: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/03/02/cpm-spy27-experiments-toughness-corrosion-resistance-and-more/. Is 14c28n Steel Good For Knives? A Complete Guide - Knife Pulse The sharpening makes the knives easy to maintain because they dull faster and require frequent sharpening. Here its 8. These steels are typically used by forging bladesmiths, traditional folders, and some production fixed blades. Quite an eyeopener! ), intended use will give you all the answers. Old time 8670, 5160 (known to ignoramuses as 51shitty) and 52100 are excellent choices and arguably better choices than 80crv2. Phone Hours (MST) Hello everyone I've been loking into twosun knives recently. There you said 7.6 for 420HC. 9Cr18MoV Steel: Full Details and Review - Bud Nealy Knife Maker 14C28N VS Steel. D2. Corrosion on knife steels most usually takes the form of rust, patina, and staining. The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. Great for tensile strength and Edge retention. The maximum edge retention available in this group is not particularly high because most of the wear resistance comes from iron carbide, also called cementite, which is the softest of the different carbide types. As such, the performance of the steel is entirely dependent upon the steels being utilized. I like it in the Seki City Spydercos, but I would like to know what ratings you would give it. You can read about my CATRA edge retention testing in this article. The ESEE had significant edge damage while the MagnaCut knife did not. Vancron would work well in a kitchen knife. Its very corrosion-resistant and quite tough. Oh, thats great, thanks. . D2 at 58 hard will cut much more rope than AEB-L at 62. 14C28N and D2 knives are affordable high-end knives. The most balanced is CPM-MagnaCut which is in an area all by itself on the chart. 14C28N is thus ideal for use in corrosive environments and challenging applications. Sign up to receive GearJunkie content direct to your inbox. The best steels with balanced properties include 4V/Vanadis4E, CPM-CruWear, and CPM-M4. Steel softens as tempering temperature increases, but certain steels see an increase in hardness in a certain higher temperature range such as shown below for high speed steels that are designed for this type of tempering: This high temperature tempering can be done for several reasons, such as better resistance to overheating during grinding, or because a coating will be applied to the knife that requires a high temperature. I havent tested Sleipner yet. 14C28N is a stainless steel that was developed specifically for use in knives. edge retention can vary by several orders of magnitude depending on what happens to the burr. This makes for a great slicing knife and a perfect steel, in my opinion, for a regular-use, everyday-carry folder. And steels with at least 10% chromium are probably stainless, except for several important exceptions like D2 and ZDP-189. D2 seems to run at high hrc. This was described in this article on Vanax heat treating. Edge retention often refers to the ability of a knifes edge to maintain its sharpness during use. It had better than expected corrosion resistance due to the lack of chromium carbides, a behavior also seen in MagnaCut. This is the basis on which I do the ratings rather than a linear scale. It can withstand a lot of wear and tear. I am just grasping at straws here, but from the data you shared, it seems like toughness does increase faster than edge retention decreases: it is harder to get a very high edge retention knife that will still be somewhat tough compared to a very tough knife that will still hold an edge ok. Most of the user loves this one that has received a lot of attention on this site. If you look at the chart you may notice that at high toughness levels if you increase edge retention by only a relatively small amount you get very big drops in toughness. Maxamet and Rex 121 are so extreme in terms of wear resistance and edge retention that I rated them higher than 10 because otherwise it throws off the ratings for everything else. D2 steel is more durable than 14C28N, but it scores lower in terms of ease of sharpening and corrosion resistance. Below are some great ways to make your knife your own. Im going to give the ratings first and then give more explanation about how the ratings were created. I have the average composition of the steels rated above (plus some extras) so you can see what the different names refer to. Continue with Recommended Cookies.